Proposed Parking Solutions.

[Stephendare]

In response to several requests for a summation of the proposed solutions:

philosophy.

We feel that the philosophy and mission statement of whatever parking commission might exist should be "To serve Jacksonville residents and businesses with their parking needs, aid and inform citizens on locations and best parking options, exhibit the best forms of customer service, and above all to serve the interests of the public and public safety."

The job of the parking department is not to bully, harm, force or to intimidate citizens or to discourage businesses from succeeding.

inventory
Meters, Garages and Lots.
That the meters for streetside parking be set at times appropriate to use, determined by a consensus of the businesses and civic leaders, and that they not carry any maximum time limits. so long as the meter is paid.

That garages which are paid for by public funds should keep the bottom floors open to public parking at rates consistent with other cities like Indianapolis' downtown (1 dollar for 4 hours)

That single level parking lots be discouraged and assessed appropriate per spot parking taxes, with the funds being disbursed for appropriate and user friendly signage directing parkers to open lots and garages.


policies
penalties, rules, ordinances, enforcement.

That the egregious new penalties put into place be abolished and that the former 5 dollar fines be reinstated for parking infractions.

That the tedious rules measuring the distance to and from a parking meter be abolished,

that the pernicious rquirement that parkers move their car outside of a four block radius be abolished,

that the prohibition against meter feeding be abolished--although the behavior admonished by enforcement.

That onstreet parking be available only after the hour of 930am except for delivery vehicles.

That the entire bloody force be retrained to function as customer service agents whose job titles would include helping people to find parking and educating people about appropriate parking behavior.

That in all cases people should be encouraged to come and REMAIN in the downtown core area in order to promote healthy and vibrant business activity and that whatever aid in parking as the parking officers may render that they be REQUIRED to render it.

Additional recommendations:
That for a period of six months, a parking meter fine amnesty be extended throughout downtown from thursday afternoon to monday mornings to encourage people to come downtown and try out the shops and cultural institutions. (including Art Walk Wednesday after the hour of 2pm.

That the city replace the antique mechanical meters with credit card and cell phone compatible versions of the type that have been employed in other cities.

And that I think sums up the needed changes to downtowns parking mayhem....extra emphasis on the monies to be spent on the appropriate "P" signage for parking.

[thelakelander]

What has been listed by you is many of the same things that have been tossed around in various task forces, suggested in parking studies and by consultants throughout the decades. Its time to stop talking and implementing a plan to fund some of these solutions. It should be interesting to see what the response will be.

One, I think is also important is to eliminate loading zones in places where the buildings they meant to serve no longer exist and add additional parallel parking spots in those places.

[Diane Melendez]

This new thread reminded me that I saw a question posted as to what I would do about downtown parking. I got distracted by some other concerns and will return to that question after I gather my thoughts about it.

[Claude91098]

End parking meters. Have more parking garages. The meters barely generate enough revenue, if enough, to pay the meter maids salaries and benefits packages! It would be a savings!

Private Parking garages: More would create competition and keep prices reasonable. The city buses could do shuttles from the garages to a ...say 4 block radius....inside pickups to keep passengers dry in the rain.

Just some thoughts. Personally, I avoid downtown at all costs. I go when I "have" to for business only...and that's about once every 5 years or so...! LOL

[thelakelander]

Claude91098, if you don't mind me asking. Why do you avoid downtown at all costs? Its important for us urbanites to understand why those outside of the core tend to avoid it. Does the parking situation have anything to do with it?

[pearlstone]

Yes claude, please do tell, I was wondering myself of your reasons.

[Charles Hunter]

Interesting proposal stephen, very internally consistent. One comment, or question about the "rules measuring the distance from the parking meter" - Given what I have read about the "Parking Nazis", I do not doubt that they use micrometers to determine violations. What is the alternative to make sure a parked car is not so far away from Meter #22 that it is encroaching on the space for Meter #23? Also, don't some the of the electronic meters use sensors to tell when the space becomes unoccupied - so it can zero out the meter - hence, the vehicle would have to be within a certain distance. Is your change in the distance rule response to the PNs being overly zealous, or is there some other reason?

[claude:] Regarding having the buses go thru the garages to pick up people to shuttle elsewhere ... I don't think there is a garage in the city that has the vertical clearance (even on the ground level), or appropriate turning room for any buses larger than converted mini-vans. Maybe they could build covered stops on the perimiter of the garage.

I remember from a couple years ago, one of the local TV stations (maybe THE local station) doing a story (during sweeps) about Government Vehicles parking in metered spaces without fear of tickets. They did a follow up a few months later (during the next sweeps) and found little had changed, and the Parking Enforcement people uncommunicative. Does this still go on? (the free gov't parking, not the rude parking people - we know that is still happening)

[TheITSteve]

For the most part, I agree, but on these:

Originally Posted by Stephendare

and that they not carry any maximum time limits. so long as the meter is paid.

To me, I'd almost rather see the reverse: no meters, and a two-three hour limit, like they do in five points, avondale, san marco, centre street in fernandina, etc.

Originally Posted by Stephendare

That the egregious new penalties put into place be abolished and that the former 5 dollar fines be reinstated for parking infractions.

If I'm coming downtown, and I need come downtown for one day or something like that, I can park at a meter, risk getting a ticket, and it be cheaper than a garage. I realize this is also a potential customer, but IMO we need to encourage the people coming downtown all day to park in a garage. I don't think the 15 is as bad as the ridiculous increases - after a short time, a 15 dollar ticket can turn into 50+ if not paid after a couple of weeks - that's crazy.

I think we also need to also develop a formal warning sytem, this way the people who have no regard whatsoever and are just being assholes can get the tickets, and the couple who comes to downtown for the first time in 5 years to eat a Boomtown (and stays 5 minutes over or something like that), gets a nice, respectful warning.

What do you guys think?

[thelakelander]

I agree with both, ITSteve. 2 to 3 hour uniform time limits would work, imo, either free or metered. A formal warning system instead of throwing first timers to wolves is also a good thing. The key to remember is (and this new parking task force will probably forget this), we should be designing downtown for everyday end user, not the meter maid or with the intent to make upfront money off of public policy.

[Claude91098]

Originally Posted by thelakelander

Claude91098, if you don't mind me asking. Why do you avoid downtown at all costs? Its important for us urbanites to understand why those outside of the core tend to avoid it. Does the parking situation have anything to do with it?

Parking is a major PITA downtown, no doubt! However, my reasons are not so hard to understand: There is little business I conduct in Duval County anymore. I live in St Johns now. But even when I lived in Duval for years, I hated to go downtown.
The streets were dirty. The businesses were all of the kind that I don't patronize. We always found everything we ever needed at the outlying malls. When I DID go downtown, it was to the courthouse or a lawyer's office or someother compelling reason that required doing so.

I have ALWAYS been approached by homeless/panhandlers downtown. (Not always one & the same..ok.) I would have to park 3 to 6 BLOCKS from where I needed to go and walk forever to get there. I didn't feel my car was safe in some of the areas I was forced to park in. I worked a couple of jobs downtown and had to go there for a year or so. The bus terminal and a lobby here and there. Night time, late shifts. Usually I was afforded a secure parking spot for those jobs close to where I was and could keep an eye on my vehicle. Since I was an armed guard, I didn't worry too much. (I was a CPO for Wackenhut).

Boiled down: #1.- Lack of a secure/safe feeling for vehicles and person.
#2.- City was traditionally "dirty".
#3.- Lack of businesses that appealed to my income bracket of people.

I know downtown HAS changed alot since the 70's and 80's. The bulk of my DT experience was in those decades.

We don't drink so we don't frequent clubs/lounges etc. The Landing is always so crowded and we shy away from big crowds too. We don't attend Jag's games for the same reason. We have been downtown once for the fireworks and enjoyed it. We parked by the River City Brewing Company and had a nice spot on the riverwalk near Friendship Fountain. We got there VERY EARLY...and when we left...there must have been 40,000 PLUS people between us and our car! We haven't returned since. The headache getting away from there just isn't worth it to us.

Just being honest. We're country folk, not city folk. Jacksonville is a beautiful city...keyword: City.

[Jason]

Great post Claude and thanks for giving the "country boy" perspective.

Outside of the occasional massive crowds, downtown is fairly quiet, and finding parking isn't as bad as it seems if you know where to park. A short walk is to be expected though. The River City Brewing Company or Landing are both very accesible in the evenings, quiet, and offer some absolutely georgeous views. Try 'em out on a thursday evening and you might be impressed, even from a county perspective.

[Claude91098]

Jason,

My "take" on where we live now is that we are far enough out in the rual area to enjoy the "country life", but yet not so far out as to miss out on some of the benefits offered by the "city". When we first moved here we lived for a year in Lighthouse Bay apartments while property hunting, (BTW I recommend AVOIDING that complex...too much crime!), then we found this nice little community in St Johns County. We avoided the huge developements like Julington Creek because we consider them "yuppie-villes" and there are just too many children for our taste. Besides, we decided to spend our money DOING THINGS rather than "owning things".
We're rather proud of Jacksonville in general. When family visits from out of state we always try to take them and the grandkids to the Jax Zoo, MOSH and we recommend some of the finer eateries on the riverwalk for their dinners out while we babysit the grandkids. (They are city dwellers so they don't mind the traffic and parking.)

Oddly enough, most of the places our relatives enjoy the best are not in Jax but in St Johns County. The Outback Crabshack, O'Steens Shrimp and Fiddler's Green. In the 5 years we've lived here now we have discovered many dining pleasures out here "in the sticks" so we don't frequent Jax much anymore. When we go to the theater we usually go with friends that like the Regency AMC so we meet there. But the BEST "little theater" in the world, (IMHO), is the Clay Theater in downtown Green Cove Springs. Family owned and operated. It's a quaint little place that is a pleasure to go to. (And for you drinkers, Ronnie's Two is a half block away!)..LOL

Their is a "market" for downtown Jax IMHO. The people that live in the hi-rises along the river and in the Riverside/Avondale areas have easier access to the downtown area. The college crowds and yuppies enjoy the Landing I'm sure. Most people that work downtown are office types and professionals, lawyers etc. That's pretty "normal" for any inner city downtown area since that's where the main courthouses, jails etc are. But for most country folk, downtown just doesn't offer anything that is "worth the trip" to downtown for. Hence, we don't frequent downtown unless we have some compelling business there like court, a lawyer visit etc. I just don't see patronizing shops for clothing or appliances "downtown". Besides, the prices are so much lower at the "sprawlmarts"! :-) Apparently we are in the majority of non-city dwellers as evidenced by the downtown businesses.

[Claude91098]

Originally Posted by thelakelander

Claude91098, if you don't mind me asking. Why do you avoid downtown at all costs? Its important for us urbanites to understand why those outside of the core tend to avoid it. Does the parking situation have anything to do with it?

Lake...come to think of it, I have a counter offer for YOU and your fellow urbanites:

WHAT do you folks feel "downtown" has to offer to folks that live in the rual areas that would entice US to spend the time, gas and money to be attracted there?

A fair question I believe. Any answers?

[thelakelander]

WHAT do you folks feel "downtown" has to offer to folks that live in the rual areas that would entice US to spend the time, gas and money to be attracted there?

Nothing, other than the occassional visit to a special event or restuarant when friends or family are in town. I believe people should have an option to choose where they want to stay, shop and dine. Just like suburbanism or ruralism isn't for an urbanite, I don't expect those who enjoy those lifestyles to be attracted to the city. All I want is the city to even the playing field and allow the core to grow on its own "as a neighborhood, not tourist attraction", without being hampered by suburban oriented zoning restrictions and ordinances.

[Claude91098]

Lake,

I believe what you mentioned is just what the rual folks use downtown for. NOW, if there were something MORE to offer than eateries and shops at the Landing, along with safe, secure parking and STREETS free of derilects, perhaps MORE people would consider visiting downtown MORE OFTEN!

Right now, I don't see much difference between downtown and 8th & Main.
I wouldn't go North of 3rd & Main walking unless I was carrying a Glock! (With extra clips!)

[thelakelander]

I agree, that's what many of the downtown advocates are currently fighting for. Some believe the answer is spending millions to attract a destination anchor or creating a fake facade to change the image of the core. All we want is for the city to keep the incentives and use those funds to clean up the core and make it more user and business friendly. This means properly addressing the parking, signage and homeless situations.

[danno]

Originally Posted by Charles Hunter

I remember from a couple years ago, one of the local TV stations (maybe THE local station) doing a story (during sweeps) about Government Vehicles parking in metered spaces without fear of tickets. They did a follow up a few months later (during the next sweeps) and found little had changed, and the Parking Enforcement people uncommunicative. Does this still go on? (the free gov't parking, not the rude parking people - we know that is still happening)

This still happens. Take a look arround the JEA building or the Property Apraisers office in the AM as well as the Fire/Rescue building.

[02Roadking]

From Owen's fairly new blog on todays meeting:

http://www.folioweekly.com/folioblog/

[thelakelander]

Good update. I'm loving Owen's new blog.

[Claude91098]

At the risk of sounding too general about this "parking meter" issue, I would like to offer the following assessment:

Many of you probably remember the toll booths on all of our bridges downtown and out on the Trout River Bridge on I 95. (What a way to welcome everyone to Jacksonville back then: PAY UP and you can get in!)

Mayor Hazoroui ran on the promise that he would tear down the toll booths because the bridges had long since collected the required revenue and that the ONLY reason the tolls were in place STILL was to fund the salaries and benefit plans of the TOLL TAKERS. I rejoiced when he made the grandstand gesture of driving that dozer/tractor through the toll booth! That was GREAT!

The parking system downtown, (meters), is old technology and I would wager that the revenue derived from them barely cover, if that, the salaries and benefit plans of the meter maids. A newer system that is more "citizen friendly" is way past due. Just my opinion mind you, but it's time to let go of outdated notions about parking on the street and institute a system that is more appropriate and condusive to people that may consider visiting downtown.

Of course, if the irbanites that live and work downtown do not want outside money visiting downtown...just leave it as it is. But be careful what you wish for; you may just get it! ;-)